Dealing with College Decisions Dropping with Jenna Schebell of The College Navigators – College Bound Mentor Podcast #40

Welcome to the College Bound Mentor podcast! Each episode, hear trends, case studies, and interviews with students who have gone through it all.

This is Episode #40 and you’ll hear us talk about how to navigate college decisions with confidence and clarity with Jenna Schebell of The College Navigators. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and your other favorite podcast spots – follow and leave a 5-star review if you’re enjoying the show!

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College Bound Mentor Podcast Episode #40: Dealing with College Decisions Dropping with Jenna Schebell of The College Navigators

With college decisions coming out in the coming weeks, we’re entering one of the most stressful times for high school students & parents. There are so many emotions you’re bound to experience, and it’s hard to resist comparing yourself to other aspiring college students. In this episode, we welcome on Jenna Schebell, Founder of The College Navigators. She’s an Independent Educational Consultant (IEC) with over 20 years of experience in college admissions. Here’s a small sample of what you’ll hear in this episode:

• How to navigate the news on college decisions
• How to understand what actually goes into admissions decisions
• How to block out the noise in this extra stressful time
• How to regroup if things don’t work out the way you’d hoped
• And how to own your path as an aspiring college student – no matter what it looks like

Subscribe to College Bound Mentor on your favorite podcast platform and learn more at CollegeBoundMentor.com.

Check out the episode and show notes below for much more detail.

Show Notes

• Dealing with College Decisions Dropping with Jenna Schebell of The College Navigators
  • [0:19] Welcome to the College Bound Mentor
  • [02:04] Jenna’s path to founding College Navigators and growing her presence on Instagram
  • [08:21] Managing stress around Early Decision (ED), Early Action (EA), and the college decision season
  • [11:39] How to cope with college rejection or deferral – avoiding catastrophizing about dream schools
  • [12:52] Understanding yield protection and whether true “safety schools” still exist
  • [16:06] Strategies for blocking out college-admissions anxiety, comparison culture, and community pressure
  • [18:57] Regrouping when decisions don’t go as planned and reassessing the college list
  • [22:04] Deferrals: what they mean, how they differ from waitlists, and when to shift focus
  • [25:40] When ED2 makes strategic sense and how to evaluate admissions statistics before committing
  • [30:12] The rise of pre-ED and rolling early-decision
  • [36:27] How to vet admissions information online and identify misinformation on social media
  • [39:39] What actually goes into a holistic review: institutional priorities, class shaping, and enrollment goals
  • [45:31] Common truths and myths about college decisions and the value of alternative pathways
  • [49:22] Final reminders about tuning out noise, trusting the process, and enjoying senior year
  • Theme Song: “Happy Optimistic Americana” by BDKSonic

What is the College Bound Mentor podcast?

Lisa, Abby, and Stefanie know college. They also know students. With over 30 years combined experience mentoring young people, they’ll show you why understanding yourself is the key to finding the right college. Each episode, hear trends, case studies, and interviews with students who have gone through it all – giving you valuable insight to survive the college application process and beyond. Hosted by Lisa Bleich, Abby Power, and Stefanie Forman, Partners of College Bound Mentor.

Transcript

Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:04
It’s good to know that there are all these options and there’s not one right way to do it.

00:19
Hey, CBMers, welcome back to College Bound Mentor, where we help you survive the college application process and beyond. We’re your co-hosts, Lisa, Abby, and Stefanie. And on today’s episode, we’re going to chat with Jenna Schebell, Founder of the College Navigators. Jenna embarked on her journey in higher education after graduating from the University of Tampa with an MBA, where she discovered her passion for helping students navigate the college application process.

00:43
During her early years as an admission counselor, she traveled throughout the Northeast region, actively recruiting prospective students for UT. She then joined Marymount Manhattan College, which is no longer, as the Associate Director of Admissions, overseeing various aspects of the admissions process and evaluating applications for both the college and highly selective specialized admissions programs such as dance and theater. After a decade in college admissions, she shifted her focus towards high school, students embarking on their own college journey. She worked at a private

01:11
at private schools in New Jersey where her most recent role was director of guidance and college counseling. We first discovered Jenna, actually Stef first discovered her because of her strong social media presence. And we are grateful to the algorithms that led us to her posts. Jenna shares clear, current, easy to understand, up to the minute and most important accurate information about college admissions. Everything from upcoming decisions, release dates to specific college admissions data to application advice and everything in between.

01:40
So thank you so much for being so generous with the information. And today we’re going to talk about how to navigate college decisions that are coming out, especially since this is the time, know, where Rollout has started in many of the public universities, some of the private universities like Villanova and Tulane released their early decisions last week. But before we get to that, we’d love to just get a little bit more, know a little bit more that we haven’t talked about in your background.

02:04
and how and why you started College Navigators. And in particular, we’re interested in how you have such a big social media account following. Well, thank you. I’m so excited that we were able to finally connect. I know you had reached out earlier in the summer and then just the craziness of the fall and the application seasons. So this is actually perfect timing, like you said, with decisions about to come out. I feel like there’s so much just chatter and nervousness. So it’s a good time to kind of touch on that topic. As for me, I think you did an awesome intro. think you kind of…

02:34
hit all of kind of the points of my travels. How I got to the college navigators was kind of just a collection of, guess, where I had spent all of my time even prior to working as an admissions counselor, even throughout college. I was just very involved in helping students. I worked at like Center for our Talented Youth through John Hopkins every summer.

02:57
So I just, feel like I’ve always had that connection to students, but my background is kind of on the business side. So I did my undergrad in computers, which was an interesting time, which reminds me of now, which is why I mentioned is that I went to college, I started in 1998, graduated in 2002, which was really when that world wide web, you know, .com bubble happened. And it was so interesting because I felt like what I was learning when I started, which was all these coatings behind the scenes, you know,

03:27
and what they were teaching by the time I graduated, it almost seemed like my degree was so irrelevant, so fast. It almost reminds me of kids right now with what’s happening with AI. I feel like this is kind of that next big insurgence. So anyway, so my career led me into admissions and spent 10 plus years working on that side. So got to learn all of the intricacies and really have a good understanding of the business behind admissions, which I feel like is my biggest like…

03:55
point that I’m always trying to drill into parents and students, especially this time of year, that it is not you, it is them. This is an emotional process for you. It is a business decision for them. And so it’s always like, if I can convey one message, it’s just like, it’s not always gonna make sense. Like college is a business. Yes, it’s education. But every day when I worked in admissions, it was all about enrollment numbers and yields and what were decisions looking like that day. And then when I got to the college side,

04:23
I am the college high school side, should say, in terms of preparing them, it became then such an emotional process. And I saw the hours and all the effort that went into it, the heartstrings that were pulled when decisions didn’t go certain ways. So I feel like I bring this kind of unique perspective of really understanding what’s going into the decisions, but also the perspective of the students. Fast forward, I guess, 2023, post-COVID, a lot changed in New Jersey high schools where it was like,

04:51
so much less about college counseling and so much more just about like mental health and other things. So I was just like losing and my whole background was college counseling. So I was really missing kind of that one-on-one. And so ended up venturing into the college navigators, total leap of faith, like quit my job. Like, you know what I mean? With really no plan, just hoping it was the right move. I loved my colleagues. I loved my job. I’d been there for seven years. So was really just a leap of faith at that point and it has worked so far.

05:21
I’ve oh been fortunate, you talk about social media, I think social media has just been a lot of luck. I think when I first started the social media, it was more because you have to, right? Everybody makes a Facebook page and an Instagram page and all that, kind of checking the boxes of what you do to start your business. And then when I got into the space, it was just like so much bad information or like fear-mongering or like…

05:44
just things that weren’t true. And I was just kind of like, wait, wait, no, that’s not real. And then I just decided like, I’m just gonna start sharing it all. I’m just gonna start telling people what’s really going on to stop like the madness because there’s already enough craziness around the process. We don’t need to like create more crazy in it. So. Well, we thank you for that. Because we feel the same way whenever we read posts and we’re like, especially Abby, we so Oh, we get so angry. So angry.

06:09
Because the kids listen to it. Right. And then they come and ask us about it. And we’re like, no, that’s not really true. And so it’s nice to have good information where people can read it and be like, yeah, that’s true. You have to know the source of where you’re getting the information from. Yeah. I remember last year was when I started getting triggered by it. Because on the day that Northwestern released early decision.

06:36
there’s a guy who is, I don’t know how many followers, but probably close to you and a young guy. And he said, here’s everything you need to know about Northwestern decisions. And he spewed all of these things that not only no one outside of Northwestern admissions could ever have known, but there’s no way they would have known it that quickly. He was talking about the word, blah, applications for this major. So if you applied for computer science, you were this regionally, was this many.

07:03
And it was literally 15 minutes after decisions. I mean, he was just sort of making it up and there was so much dialogue and he was just literally lying. And he’s so mad because we had kids calling us, you know, is this true? Should I have done that? And I’m like, no, no, no, none of that’s true. He’s literally just spewing nonsense and hoping that, you know, somebody picks it up. I know.

07:28
I I feel, yeah. especially appreciative of accurate information. Yes, yes, we are. Because we make our, I mean, our whole life is just being accurate, like giving the truth to people so they can understand. Yeah, no, I get it. I do. I always, my favorite, like my cringe is always the one that’s like, this essay got me into this school. And like, I feel like a little bit more about your profile because it was not like the essay to the end. It’s like, help. I’m sure it did. But like,

07:55
be more truthful with like your whole profile. Like were you in the top 5 %? Did you have like top tier scores? Did you have like all these other meaningful activity? I mean, it’s a whole holistic process at most of these schools. So it’s just like, give a little more context. Yeah, exactly. Give a little more context. And the flip side of it too, an essay is not gonna necessarily keep you out unless it’s just so terrible. there’s so many things that go into making the decision. And I think that’s…

08:21
why we thought it would be good to talk about that. we have December coming up in a couple of weeks, we’re gonna get all of the early decisions are gonna come out. Some of the early actions are gonna come out. So what do you give your like, what is some of the best advice? I remember like with my own three kids, it was just not to talk about it all the time and not to say, oh, you’re definitely gonna get in because that would just make them so stressed out. If you know, they, especially girls like, no, don’t talk so bad. How do you

08:50
So what would you say is some good advice that you would give sort of during this waiting time and then also just to how to prepare? Right. I mean, some of it is, of course, the cliche things that you say, but I truly stand by it. Like, I really think you will end up where you are meant to be. And I always try to use analogies with my students because I feel like sometimes that works like a little bit better. But I even say like things.

09:14
You know, think if you’re shopping for a homecoming dress, right? And you go look at a rack and you think there’s these 10 really great dresses. And then you go into the fitting room and like all of these that you thought were great, maybe they don’t fit you right or they don’t look as good or maybe there’s ones that surprise you and all of a sudden they become your top choices. And so I always think students need to understand the list that they have when they are putting it all together and they’re applying is going to look very different from their list that they’re actually making decisions from. And there needs to be a point

09:44
during the admission cycle that you really start focusing on the colleges that love you back, the ones that want you and the ones that are accepting you and the ones that are showing you the merit money and applauding you for your efforts and lose that focus of the ones that maybe you didn’t get into or if you’re deferred and now you’ve got to wait a little bit longer, start focusing those efforts on the ones that have shown you the love because there are so many great schools out there and so many times I hear, it was my dream and I’m like, but.

10:12
Why was it your dream? Like, let’s really like break it down because besides maybe things like the great football team or the, you know, the fun Greek life or the location, a lot of times when I ask them to really break down what made it so right from there, they can’t always define all of that in terms of, you know, what was it about those academic programs? What did your four year trajectory look like and how was it gonna set you up for somewhere else? And the other thing I always tell students, just because it’s a no, doesn’t mean it’s a not never, like not ever.

10:42
You can always end up somewhere else later, meaning like look at the transfer opportunities, look at what it might mean for grad school. So it’s not where you start, it’s where you finish. And I think as adults, we know anytime somebody says, where did you go to school? You’re saying the last place you went. So I mean, if your heart is completely set on being somewhere, let’s figure out then how to get you there. But in the meantime, let’s be really excited about all the places and options that you do have. Yeah.

11:08
I think that’s, I mean, we say the same thing to our clients, but I think it’s really hard in December, because I what happens in March, then you have all of these options, right? How all the decisions, but I think it’s really hard when someone’s, you know, it’s their dream school, they’ve applied early, and they don’t have any other information yet. Like, they’re only gonna typically get that they might get into some of the the early notification schools that might have been

11:35
the safety school or if you could even call it that, but they don’t really have a lot of information yet. And so when they get that rejection or they get that deferral, right? That’s, think the hardest because all of a sudden, a lot of times they’ll start to catastrophize. Oh my God, I didn’t get anywhere. I’m never going to get it here. Or they got deferred from a school that they thought was like a school that they would, know, like Tulane, that was always a kind of thing. If someone was applying for perhaps an IV and then they got deferred from Tulane, like,

12:04
I didn’t get in there. I’m never going to get into any school. you start down that catastrophizing of things. And I think that’s another piece of advice. I don’t know what you recommend to your families. But I think that’s just the hardest thing is because at that point, they don’t have enough information. In March, yes, that conversation makes a lot of sense. But in December, there’s this feeling that that was it. I put everything into it. And I didn’t get it. Or I got deferred.

12:31
whatever it is and that’s it. I’m not getting it anywhere else. Yeah, I’m not gonna get in anywhere. Right. And I think that’s really hard thing to just wrap your head around that yes, you are gonna get into other schools and it really hurts. But don’t catastrophize it. think Right. And it’s important, I think, to educate them a little bit too on yield protection.

12:52
because I think sometimes students don’t understand that aspect of it, that colleges, like you said, are there really safeties anymore? Sometimes colleges look at you as an applicant and while yes, you are great, maybe they don’t sense that you’re going to commit and enroll or you you’re somebody that you’re better off deferring because they, in their mind, they might think you’re applying ED other places and they wanna see if you stick around. And you are.

13:19
So that’s kind of what it is. I think that, and I think that, and it’ll be interesting to see like Michigan, because that was always the school Michigan was doing that. we’re all super curious to see what happens with Michigan. yeah. This year. I think that’s going to be a huge thing. But to your point, and then I just, and then we’ll get off this sort of what to do. But like one of our, got this note from one of my clients who ended up at a school that wasn’t like at her tippy top of her list, right? And she ended up not getting into her.

13:47
her, you know, thought was her dream school, is a rich school, an Ivy. I just got a note from her and she told me, oh my God, I’m so happy. And she listed all the wonderful things that she was doing and that she was doing research with a professor, the one that she identified in her, why this school essay, and that she was in a sorority and she was doing everything possible. said, I’ve never been happier in my whole life. And so it’s just like that to see like she couldn’t have necessarily imagined that in December, right? But now almost a year later, she’s just

14:17
beyond the moon and she’s so happy. So I think that’s also something to keep in mind. I think the parents too, I always caution parents like read the room. Sometimes the kids aren’t as upset as you are. So like I can tell you how many parents will be like, I’m so mad at this school. Like I had one mom last year just constantly like she was so mad at UVA, her daughter didn’t get in and her, I mean, her daughter got into UNC and all these other great schools ultimately went to UNC and finally messaged me this past September like,

14:46
She loves it there. I’m so glad she didn’t go to VA. But sometimes it’s like, if your kid’s not upset, like even if you are, like don’t show that to them. Like don’t project some of that, maybe negativity or make it a bigger deal because sometimes, you know, what you had in your head is very different, you know, how your kids have moved through the process and what they’re thinking. So I always say like, read the room with your students as the decisions come in. Cause if they’re not like overly upset, like no need for you to be. right. Don’t like, don’t make them feel bad and undermine their own product. Yeah. Right.

15:15
I think it’s so important something you said about educating our families and our students about yield rate because you, um, Lisa and Abby, they’re back all of your backgrounds, business, or I was a little bit different. I, I was an English teacher and kind of doing the essay thing. So the business world, it’s very humble. I mean, all of it’s humbling, right? But like the yield rate that all of that was very new to me and like wrapping my head around that. And once I understood that, that like that light bulb went off when it’s like,

15:44
so much of it’s not personal. I think just like, and yield, we talk about it so much, but I think that’s such a good point, like wrapping your head around that. And I feel like sometimes we explain it and it kind of goes over their head. They don’t really understand what it means. So yeah, I’m glad you touched on that. So maybe this is to continue on with this conversation, we’re treating you like a therapist right now, but um like, I feel it might be a nearly impossible task, but how do you recommend

16:14
for students and parents to block out all of this noise and fodder surrounding the anticipation of decisions, the aftermath, the focus on results. We learned that Jenna is uh also in New Jersey, like Lisa and myself, and Abby too is in an area where you can’t escape this college talk. So yeah, what’s your advice to block out the noise?

16:38
I know, it is crazy. I always tell people like, just try to go out and have fun and do things to distract you because it is madness. And like the thing that makes the journey the hardest is when you start comparing yourself to others. And that, I mean, that’s an every single aspect. And even this time of year gets very tough. Like even if you take out the decision part of it, there are like a set group of students who very early in the process already know where they’re going, right? They’ve committed, they’ve enrolled, they’ve deposited. And so I think for the students, it’s so important to remind them that

17:08
what the normal thing is for this time of the year is, you you hear some decisions in December and you hear some more decisions in January and then you get more in March. And it’s really in March where you’re kind of laying everything out on the table and figuring it out and going back for visits and making a decision by May. Like that is normal. So yes, there are going to be the students who are excited and wearing the sweatshirts and already claiming everything, but you’re not behind. And I think it’s very easy to get caught up in like,

17:36
just feeling like everybody else has it figured out. And it’s like, from my perspective, I can’t tell you how many students maybe changed their mind at the last minute or have last minute things come up. And so it’s just, if you can just really keep the eyes on your own lane and know that this is your journey and the more you focus on it, the happier you’re going to be in the end. You’re gonna make the right decisions. You’re not gonna be doing things because everybody else is doing them. So I know it is so completely hard, but.

18:03
Just go celebrate, have fun. The applications are out. You can only control what you can at this point. And then just like I said, be excited about your senior year. Like I feel like so many people lose little moments in their senior year because they’re so focused on the future and senior year is so fun. Like you’ve waited four years to get to it. So if you can just like step back and just kind of like turn it all over and know that it is going to work out and just go have fun. Like I said, easier said than done, but.

18:30
you really got to turn off that chatter. And like parents too, like you’re part of that chatter. Like, did you say so and so? Like stop. Like let’s stop and let the students have fun. This is true. Yeah. I think that’s a great point. Or we’re going to start to use, I like your prom dress, homecoming dress analogy and loving them back. That’s great. Early actions have come out, early decisions, some have come out.

18:57
but they’re about to really drop in the next few weeks. And so kind of like what we were talking about, things don’t work out. How do you help your students regroup? Is there an action plan? Is there one thing you tell them to do? uh it depend on the student? I think it depends on the student, but I think, especially for the students that I’ve worked with, we try to be very intentional with the list. So hopefully you do have at least…

19:22
Some wins, I love rolling schools for students for that reason. So at least, know, that, you know, I can go somewhere. I know I have somewhere is just a little helpful. But I also think I tell them like, this is why we apply early because then we still have the regular decision and we still have early decisions. So if you feel like you’re not happy with the way certain things have worked out, you still have time now to apply to.

19:45
many other schools. So I think it’s just re-strategizing if necessary, or just like I said, shifting our focus and starting to focus on, okay, I got these five really great offers. I am happy with those five. So now it’s time to switch course and start going to admitted student days and revisiting and joining things on social media so I can meet other students. So I think it’s just, again, like I said, having that.

20:07
restrategizing conversation if we need to, but if not, then we just need to start getting excited about certain options that are out there. But I think it’s okay to cry and be upset and do that for one day and whatever you need to do, go eat a tub of ice cream, do something because you’re upset. But then the next day we put our boots back on and we get moving and we figure out what’s going to be next because we know life is not linear, right? It’s not.

20:30
doesn’t have to be this straight path. Like I said before, if you really want to go somewhere, we can figure out why, but chances are, like I said, it’s working out for a reason and you’re going to be excited. I can’t tell you how many parents have said like certain schools that have just completely surprised them. Like the number of parents that have messaged me this year about Iowa State in general, just saying like, I never expected and we got on the campus and they were just so interested in my student, the follow-up, like all of this. I think sometimes parents don’t realize the difference between

20:59
schools that can really just take every applicant for granted and the schools that are really going to nurture a relationship with your child all the way from the admissions process throughout the four years. So yeah, it’s just learning kind of all those options that are out there. And like I said, just getting excited about where your choices lie. Yeah. I didn’t appreciate the early win until I saw it with my own two boys who have now both graduated from college, but back in the day, Indiana was rolling.

21:26
Yeah, and they both got into Indiana. I mean, I just remember more than even them being accepted to the schools they went to. I remember that they opened it up and both just burst into tears, burst into tears like somebody wants me. So I try to remember that actually with all even super high, you know, flying kids to apply because I just have one who

21:50
applied to an IV early decision. We’ll see how he does, but he just got into his local university and he was all teary eyed. He was like, I’m just so excited. It does feel nice to get in. So the next topic is probably my least favorite in the entire process, I have to say. This is the time when I’m stressed. Deferrals. Helping the kids navigate what happens if they’re deferred from their first choice schools, whether it was an ED or an EA.

22:18
Yeah, helping them figure out if they should stay hopeful, if they should, as you were saying, recalibrate and re-strategize and go for an early decision too. Personally, I had had very little success with kids who were deferred and then accepted, but then a couple of years ago, it did happen at Duke. So I’m cautious not to be like, there’s no hope, there’s no hope at

22:46
I don’t know what, you have any advice about how to counsel the kids looking at the rest of the process once they’ve been deferred? Yeah, I mean, I try as much as I can, especially on my Instagram to like go crazy sharing stats because I think it’s so important for students to understand is this a small deferral pool where they are taking a certain percentage later where there is still hope or are we talking like.

23:09
Michigan that’s just gonna defer 53,000. Are we talking like University of Southern California that’s basically deferring everyone because they’re not denying anybody, right? So I think it’s really important to kind of set the tone for each school. And then I’m always the one that’s, I would say more negative. Like we’re just gonna expect that it’s not gonna work out so that if it does, it’s just a pleasant surprise because I just think like you said,

23:34
It’s almost like a wait list when it comes to deferrals that there’s not always a rhyme or reason who’s getting picked off, right? They’re fulfilling institutional needs and goals at that point. So it may work out for the student and be very favorable. may not. Again, I think it’s very school dependent, right? I think there are state schools that very intentionally defer a lot of out-of-state because they have state minimums that they have to meet for their in-state kids. Like I feel like South Carolina is big on that. They defer a lot of out-of-state kids, but later many of them get in. um

24:04
whereas other schools just aren’t as favorable for students. So I think, I guess going back to answer your question, I try to share as many stats as I can. And then I just have historical data so I can go back and look if the school share about how many percent really got pulled off in the previous years and got admitted out of that deferral pool, just so students can manage their expectations. But the funny thing that I will say is at least with my own students this past year, those that were deferred,

24:34
they lost interest, which was interesting over the course. Like I had a student who applied REA to Notre Dame was deferred and also deferred at University of Texas in that early January 15th, got into Michigan and eventually got into both Notre Dame and Texas. But because they had deferred, she had kind of given up and lost hope and in the meantime spent all her energy getting excited about Michigan that by the time they came around, she was kind of like.

25:02
whatever I’m sold on Michigan at this point, like didn’t even care. So I do think schools can potentially lose students in the process by deferring. I I know why they do it, but like I said, I think that’s why I just focus and channel their energy into getting excited and loving those back. If they work out awesome, like that’ll be another choice for you, but you may or may not even want it when it comes around. So. Yeah, I think that’s gotta be the exact right direction to give in that world of uncertainty.

25:30
Again, we really appreciate all the stats and information that you share and deferral stuff is, I don’t know, that information seems to be hard to come by. So for kids who are trying to figure out if they should do ED2, um A, how would you help them sort of navigate through that prioritization in their minds? And then also what data would you direct them towards? What pieces of from the school would be most important to consider?

26:00
Yeah, so I think again, I think it depends on the schools that they’re looking at, but looking at, know, what percentage of students, you know, what does the applicant pool look like for ED2? Because what I always try to tell students is don’t forget a lot of times, ED2 pools are like very successful ED1 applicants that got denied to say, you know, whatever their Harvard’s or Princeton’s or, those

26:22
5 % acceptance rate schools and now they’re going into the second round. So ED2 does not necessarily mean easier by any means. And I also say like, you’re giving up, I mean, obviously with ED1 too, you’re giving up your option to really negotiate and lay out all your options on the table. So I only encourage students to do ED2 if that was kind of part of the initial plan. You know what I mean? Like if when we were making your list in the beginning, we went into the process saying, okay,

26:51
We’re gonna do Vanderbilt first and if it doesn’t work out, we’re going to do NYU second. I don’t like the like last minute panicky detours. I just think sometimes you’re just panicking too early when you have all these other decisions that are probably gonna be coming out later that, you know, are you just freaking out and making a rash decision or was it, like I said, I tend to like the ones that were part of the plan. Of course, I know we have like your two lanes in Miami is that.

27:17
intentionally defer to try to sway into ED too. And Chicago doesn’t say anything. Yeah, so I mean, if that’s where you know you want to be beyond a doubt, then I would say go for it. But I even think like Miami, I had a student last year who applied ED, got deferred. And so she was, you know, that’s where I want to be. But in the end, it resulted in a spring admit. So like, eventually she still got what she wanted. And she, you know, she still went for the spring, but just know, I don’t know, I think it’s school dependent, but

27:46
I don’t necessarily love ED either. That’s just me. But I just think you have to just be willing to just that’s, you know, you’re just a hundred percent sold on it and that’s where you want to be. And it’s got to be worth it. But for me, it should have been a part of the initial plan, not just a knee jerk reaction. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it’s also like I had a student last year who actually it was two years ago. I think she’s a freshman there. Anyway, she, she applied ED to Duke and then she got deferred.

28:17
And she was a double legacy and she should have gotten in like there was no reason for her not to get in. And then she was really stressed out about it. So she wanted to apply to a second school. So she applied there, which again should have gotten into and got deferred. And then regular decision and she got into Michigan actually early and UVA early and then regular decision she got into both of the schools, Duke and the other school. So it was kind of one of those things where it was like.

28:42
the universe really did work out because it was like, should have been in those schools in the the get go, but then it gave her time to really make the decision whether or not she to do it. So, I mean, that doesn’t always happen, but that was kind of a nice story where that happened. And I think you’re right though with like schools like Tulane. I don’t know if you saw that article in the New York Times about the, sure everyone’s talking about that, the admissions people. And first people are focusing on how much money they’re making, but also just from a business standpoint, you could see, I mean, we saw that.

29:10
you know, we saw it happening in real time, how they were using ED and many schools are using it as an enrollment management business strategy, lock in number of students that they know are going to come. And most of the time they’re going, many of the time, much of the time they’re going to be full-paced students, but not always, because they often, they will meet full need, even for decision, but you don’t have the opportunity to compare. And then it’s like, okay, well, you didn’t get in to EA, so let’s switch you to ED too.

29:40
And they’ll ask the students to do that. And so that’s always becomes another strategy, is almost if you don’t do it, you feel like you’re not gonna get in. And they give you that option. So it does become tricky when you’re trying to advise students and figure out what the strategy is. So I think it’s a really hard thing to do. Yeah. Yeah, it would be nicer if it was just one timeline, one timeframe. You just put in your applications and everyone waits the same.

30:08
Like in England. Like everywhere else except for here. Yeah. Every other country. Another thing that kind of threw is sort of throwing me for a loop is these pre-ED ones now. Well, that’s really Chicago. Wake Forest. Oh, Chicago. yeah. Yeah, ED zero or early, you know, uh rolling ED. That’s just adding another layer of stress, I think, for the kids.

30:35
It is. I feel like every year, everything just keeps inching like earlier and earlier and earlier. But then like on the flip, I feel like things are extending later and later. Just look at it. The cycle used to be so much more predictable. You would know that most kids would, most of our kids, when we first started, like I’ve been doing this for 20 years. mean, most of would get an early decision, they would be done. And you’d be like, okay, great. Now it’s like, as you said, it’s starting earlier, it’s ending later, it’s extending. So really you’re not done until…

31:04
June, possibly. You could be going at it until June. mean, Duke was pulling kids in August. You know what I mean? It’s just getting, it’s crazy. So. And I think it’s all about managing enrollment. And there’s just, think because the world is uncertain. then at college admissions has become fodder and it’s a microcosm of the world and the uncertainty of the world gets overlaid on the uncertainty of college admissions.

31:30
and everything political that happens impacts college admissions. Like there’s just so many external forces that didn’t used to be at play as much, I don’t think. And I think that makes it really since COVID things have been bananas. Yeah. Well, it’s funny. I always try to like make predictions of like things that are gonna happen and whatever. like, think this year, we’ll see, but I feel like it started popping up last year and we may see more of it, especially that we know that there is going to be like this decline in enrollment.

32:00
is more of these guaranteed transfer admits. So I started getting more and more of those where it’s like, oh, you’re admitted, not for this year, but if you can go somewhere else for a year and get X amount. And it’s like, we kind of know that already, like that’s kind of like how the transfer process works anyway. But I think having that like guarantee in front of it is such a great marketing strategy from the college standpoint, right? It’s that these students know that you have a pathway in if you want it. And I just think, I think we’re gonna start seeing more of that.

32:30
as these schools know that there’s going to be a drop off and want to secure students without having to spend more enrollment dollars. Right. No, that’s actually a really good point. I hadn’t thought about that. But it also kind of follows suit with what’s happening in athletics, right? Because now nobody’s loyal to anyone. You can always switch at any time. And that makes it hard for the school to which someone’s leaving to manage their enrollment. it’s challenging. And I think that’s what a lot of people don’t understand is that like at the

32:57
You the, the top say, 50 schools are the schools that are have less than a 10 % acceptance rates. Those schools aren’t going to necessarily be impacted as much, but there’s so many other schools, which is the majority of colleges that are really trying to get enrollment, keep their right number up and they’re they don’t know how they’re going to do it from year to year. And and it’s hard. I mean, I used to when before I got into this directly before I worked at what year college I was there. The marketing department and and they’re at the time they’re. oh

33:25
their retention rate was like 78 % or something like that. And it was a challenge because every year they were trying to scramble to refill the class. And so they were doing it through transfers and other means of trying to get students in, but it made it harder to predict into, especially at the tuition dependent revenue. Yeah, tuition dependent universities or colleges, it makes it harder for them to kind of figure that stuff out.

33:53
I think one positive thing about social media and those alternative enrollment options is I think there used to be like a real stigma. know, parents would would feel like there was a stigma of saying, you know, my my kid is going to start sophomore year or spring term, spring semester. But now I think the kids are so out and proud with their experiences. Right. It’s big nothing ball. Like I have good friends whose son is very high achieving family and friends. The son’s

34:22
doing community college for a year and then transferring sophomore year and they are. They’re pro. Yeah, they’re like, it’s, it’s a It’s not a nothing call. They say that. They’re, they’re like, there’s the best. This is best of all, all world. But I think a few years ago, you would have sort of, you know, at a dinner party, been a little bit shy about talking about that. So I think that’s a nice thing. Actually. think the kids are really owning their paths, different kinds of paths to get to the same place. Sort of what you were alluding to earlier.

34:52
Well, my favorite article right now, favorite is the Rhodes Scholar who had a 2.08 in high school. Did you read that? So I mean, to show students that, and I always try to tell them, right, like I said, it’s not a linear path. There are so many different ways to get to where you want to do. Here’s the guy that went into the military who then went to community college who transferred into Princeton. Yes, you can transfer into Ivy’s, right? Students don’t always understand that. And now he’s one of 32 selected to be a Rhodes Scholar. So it’s like,

35:20
see that there’s all these different avenues for you. And that’s why, like you said, cut out that noise, figure out your path, how you want to get there. I think people are so much more price conscious now that a lot of people are like, totally cool. Like, yes, my kids are to go to community college and then transfer over and, you know, or go to these other options that are more affordable and go to the more expensive leader. It’s good to know that there are all these options and there’s not one right way to do it.

35:45
Jenna, I love that you do that on your Instagram, on your stories. Like you were talking about Iowa State, that you just put so much information out there, but you do highlight so many of these schools and programs that are specialized or acceptance rates that I think you really do make other people realize there are different paths. There’s different, I think you do this too.

36:10
here are these public universities that have all of these things that everyone wants in like a raw raw school and you open their eyes to them. Like you’ve opened my eyes to some of these schools either, like to some of these schools that, you know what? That might be a really good idea. It might be outside of their comfort zone, but let’s see what happens when they do some research. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, with that, you know, there are so many resources on social media and we talked a little bit about.

36:37
but just on the internet and with, know, chat GBT and all these other ways that people are now getting information. How do you, someone discern what’s accurate or not? Because there is so much misinformation and harder, I feel like it’s harder to find good information than it is to find misinformation. What do you think? Right. I’m trying to teach people, like when you look at their profile, like,

37:02
or go to their profile should say when you see something, go to their profile, click on their link and like read their background. So you get a little bit more context to like who’s putting the information out. I mean, I’m a big proponent of saying like check and see if they belong to some sort of professional organization, right? See if they’re, know, IECA, HECA, NACAC, something so that you know that they have some sort of professional standards and ethics and you know that they’re regularly getting trained on what’s happening on college campuses, what’s going on in the college landscape and just really

37:33
doing your research before you take something. I mean, I have so many people that will send me stuff and be like, is this real? And I’m like, stop looking at some of this stuff. If it ends with dot AI, it’s probably like outdated or not right information to begin with. So I mean, I think it’s hard to sometimes discern, but if you can like as a parent or student, like at least go look up the person and see what their kind of credentials are, where they’ve worked or where the information’s coming from, because at least then you know, you know, is this just…

38:01
I don’t know, there’s so many, I just feel like it’s such an industry where anybody can do it. I mean, sometimes it comes from, know, groups, Facebook groups on, uh, there’s a lot of places where it comes from. Yeah, it comes everywhere. Yeah, it does. That’s good advice. Overwhelming. Yeah. I’d like to look, I sometimes tell kids if it, especially early on when it would be difficult to imagine that anyone could have done research.

38:27
And like it doesn’t say it in the school’s admissions blog, or the school’s website, take it with a grain of salt. I mean, it might be right what you’re saying, but verify. Yeah. mean, trust maybe and verify. Read and verify. Read and verify. We need to come up with a new acronym to come up with that, right? Something, yeah. And some colleges just do such an amazing job with transparency, like…

38:52
I always say shout out to UGA, shout out to UVA, Georgia Tech. mean, there are some that really just are just so forthcoming. And I think it just really helps in the end. Like it has to reduce their phone calls coming in because you’re just being very transparent about what’s happening, how decisions are made, what they value in an applicant. And so they, I think it just helps all around. And if, like you said, go to those sources.

39:15
The UVA dean she does a live every Thursday, go watch that. Like that’s the source. If you’re interested in applying there, that’s who you should be listening to, not just some random person that’s telling you why they think they got in. So. Yeah. Exactly. I’m sure you get some very interesting em direct messages, but that’s a, yeah, for another day. em So being a former admissions counselor,

39:39
What do you think are some important things for students to know about what goes into their decisions from the other side? You mentioned this earlier that, you know, it is a business and it’s them, not you. And what do you wish that students and their families understood? I think first, I mean, definitely understand, like I said, because these are business decisions, these have been set, not even by the admissions office, but board of trustees, president.

40:04
You know, they’re meeting long before you’re even applying and making decisions on what they need for their class. And so you can only control what you can in the process and things are gonna happen throughout the admission cycle, right? We’ve seen how many colleges, look at Columbia just the other day, we’re probably gonna increase enrollment by 20%. I mean, if you applied, good for you, right? Like that was lucky or like last year when Yale dropped it in like what, January, February, we’re gonna admit more students. Rice did the same thing. So you only,

40:33
have so much information and there’s so much that you’ll never know. So all you can do is really control what you can in the process and then just understand. mean, every school has their wish list just like you do in a college of what they’re looking for in students. And so the more that you can understand that so much of the class is going to be shaped. always like when I, cause I run the Navigator Network and do like group counseling, I bring up this big chart where it’s like, okay, if we can meet a hundred kids.

41:00
understand that, you know, maybe 10 of them have to be athletes and 10 of them are maybe legacy students and maybe 10 meet that low income or, you another tenant from rural areas. And so there’s all of these things that shape a class. And the more you can understand that, you’ll realize that your percent chance of getting in, if you’re not checking some of these boxes is actually much lower. And you’ll start seeing that that’s why decisions don’t always make sense. You know, you’ll always see colleges bragging that they have kids from 46 states. Well,

41:29
If you’re the only kid from South Dakota applying to a certain school, your likelihood is going to be stronger than the kid that maybe has, from the same high school as a whole bunch of other kids. So it’s just understanding how colleges are shaping a class. And that’s why I said, I love to just constantly educate parents as much as I can so that the decisions don’t feel deflating, that you understand that there’s just so much more going into it. And there could be…

41:57
some things that really work in your favor, that’ll be nice surprises. And then there’ll be other times that you just, it doesn’t make sense. You’re like, I can’t tell you how many messages I get where it’s like, my student had a four point something and this many APs and Johnny down the street didn’t, but he got in, it’s so unfair. And I’m like, you know, it’s.

42:16
There’s so much more to it that goes into it. that’s why you can’t, you what works for one school and makes you so perfect for one makes you completely wrong for another. You’re the same applicant. You haven’t done anything differently, but, you know, it’s just goes to show that they’re prioritizing something about you here. They’re not, you know, I had a student years ago, well, not too many, would say maybe 2019, who was in the top 20%. This is when I worked in a high school, top 20 % of her class, of the class got into Cornell and we were like,

42:46
How did she get into Cornell? No, I mean, she was good student, but like our valedictorian got denied, our salutatorian, you know, and we’re just really like completely befuddled at that point. Like what is going on? And like lo and behold, we figured out that Cornell has an endowment set aside for families of 9-11, who, children, parents had died. And so she was kind of at that very tail end. She was probably, you know, a tiny, tiny baby when her dad had passed away. And…

43:13
It made sense then, like this is, that was her hole in. And you can’t go around and tell all the other kids in the class, well, that’s why she got in. But it made sense of like, that just goes to show colleges have priorities. They sometimes have money set aside for certain groups of students. And so that’s why when you say, well, how did she get in and I didn’t, there’s so many variables that just you don’t either know about, don’t make sense to you. Like I said, you’ll never know. But.

43:40
it works at one school, but that student wouldn’t have gotten into say Stanford or wouldn’t have gotten into, you know what I mean? But for that school, she had something that checked the box and made her very attractive to that school. students just have to realize, like I said, there’s so much more that goes into these decisions. And there’s so much, there’s so many different types of students in the world that I think is also hard for people to understand when you’re in your little bubble, you just see like the little.

44:06
group around you, but there’s just so many different experiences that people have and it does bring different things to the community. I think the other thing too is a lot of people don’t understand the whole like in context to the high school you go to and that’s the other piece that I’m always trying to say like, okay, if you go to one school where maybe a large percent don’t go to college and maybe the average SAT score at that school is a 1200 and you have a 1400 and you’re tough like you’re a standout.

44:36
If you’re coming from a high school where it’s just kind of expected that you get a 1400 and now you’re 50 % of your class there, everything is, you’re taking into context. always tell students like, pull out your transcript, pull out your school profile. How do you look in context to your profile? Because that is how colleges are looking at you. They’re not looking at you. Freehold High School down the street, students can take five, six APs a year. I worked at St. John Vianney, our students could max at three. Like you’re not.

45:03
being looked at in the same capacity and students need to understand that. I think they start saying, well, I had this many and this many and it’s like, no, no, no, no. How did you look and compare it to your high school and what was available to you? Right. No, I mean, that’s very true. We always start off all of our meetings doing that. Yeah. And most times people don’t know what a school profile is. I’ve never seen it before. Right. And they don’t really understand how to interpret it, especially to put themselves within that context. Right.

45:31
We always put that at all of our first meeting. So we always just like to end or start with some truths and myths. And I think you’ve covered some of them. What would you say are some truths or myths about college decisions? Well, I think truth in general, and I know this is a college podcast, but I always try to tell students, like, you don’t have to go to college, right? And I say that because I think sometimes students feel like they have to or that it’s expected. And maybe it is depending on the family that you’re coming from.

46:00
I always want students to know that there’s lots of ways to be successful in life and that there are so many options out there. And part of your journey in researching even colleges should just be looking at all of your options that you have, because like I said, I don’t think there’s one path. So I always think it’s just important for students to understand that. And like I said in the beginning, we’re in a very, I mean, the landscape is changing.

46:21
And I feel like there are students right now that are going to school and there may or may not be jobs available for them, depending on the way AI goes. We’re already seeing how computer science students are struggling, whereas like engineers are having a field day, right? In terms of options. I always say, you wanna make sure you’re, I mean, this is an investment in yourself. I think, of course college is fun and there’s a social piece of it, but it’s expensive. And so you wanna make sure that you’re making the right investment in yourself.

46:49
so that you have options later. And I think it’s important too, as students are deciding where to go, who is going to help them with their next move? Like what does four years later look like? And so I always tell students too, like don’t discount those kind of small liberal arts colleges that really focus so heavily on kind of preparing for that next step, right? They don’t have maybe grad schools or if they do, they’re very small. So I mean, their whole reputation.

47:16
relies on getting students kind of to their next path. And so I always tell students, know, make sure you look into those options as well. And the other thing I say too is like, if you know you wanna work in a certain field, like check out where you might wanna live after too. You know, if you’re very invested in, you know, wanting to work in say politics, okay, maybe you’re applying to Georgetown, but if you don’t get in, there’s lots of ways you could be in the DC area and get those same internships that those Georgetown kids would be getting. And so,

47:45
I think that’s always an important piece. always tell parents like, look at where the internship opportunities, what employers are working with the campus. Because when I worked in New York City, I mean, yes, I was at Marymount Manhattan, but they were pulling kids from our school, just like they were pulling them from Pace and Fordham and NYU. our kids would go to internships and they were surrounded by those other students. So if your goal is to be, say, working on Wall Street or working in DC, like I said, set yourself up where you can be successful in those areas.

48:15
Yeah, I think that’s such good advice. And I also want to pick up on what you were saying about the liberal arts colleges or just the colleges that really focus on critical thinking, because I think what I’ve been reading a lot, and I’m sure you guys have as well, just like listening to what employers are saying that they want from students. And I don’t know that it’s necessarily changed as it’s always been the case, but like those critical thinking skills, those are the only things that right now AI can’t do.

48:41
Right. And so it’s being able to combine those thinking skills with the tools that are out there and that are always changing. Right. And so it’s that ability to learn, to learn new things, to figure out how you can apply what it is that you need to do by using those tools that constantly evolve. That’s what’s going to hopefully set you apart when you’re working in the job market. Because I know it’s tough right now, because I’ve been getting that question this year. It makes sense. oh

49:10
like, okay, so they go to college and then what happens if they can’t get a job? And so it’s again, uncharted territory that we’re all trying to navigate. So. Yeah, absolutely. you for your being the guiding light in this and helping people and families do that. Any last words that you want to share? Don’t believe everything you hear on social media. I feel like that’s a good one to say. I mean, if you’re a parent listening, I would say like,

49:38
I feel like there’s so many right now I’m constantly seeing like if you haven’t started in eighth grade, you’re never going to a good school, right? I feel like, like I said, just watch everything you hear. I can’t tell you how many people reach out and say, I’m already behind. And it’s like, no. Let’s start with where you are and then we can go from there. So I mean, if you’re a parent listening to this, try to weed out some of that noise just for yourself as you’re going through the process because it is overwhelming, but it does work out the way it’s meant to be. And then,

50:05
Just enjoy senior year. Like I said, so many students get stripped of that experience because they just focus so much on things that are just out of your control that if they can just really, you know, lean into where they are right now and know that everything’s gonna come right. Those dates and decisions will come and they’ll drop and you know, they’ll work out or they won’t, but you’ll keep moving forward and you’ll be successful. So.

50:26
You know, just good luck through the tough time, because I know this month is can be challenging. So everybody that, you know, we wish everybody good luck as they start hearing about their decisions. Well, thank you. CBMers for tuning in and thank you. Jenna for an epic episode. We will definitely have a link to your Instagram and your resources on our line.

50:48
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